Comments on: Of Superheros and Conservation of Energy http://www.starstryder.com/2007/09/25/of-superheros-and-conservation-of-energy/ Blogging one sidereal day at a time Sat, 04 Feb 2012 16:26:45 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Empyre http://www.starstryder.com/2007/09/25/of-superheros-and-conservation-of-energy/comment-page-1/#comment-24852 Empyre Sun, 22 Jun 2008 22:16:59 +0000 http://www.starstryder.com/2007/09/25/of-superheros-and-conservation-of-energy/#comment-24852 Years ago, I read an article in Wizard (the magazine about comic books) which pretended to be written by Dr Charles Xavier (leader of the XMen). It said that the mutation that gives them powers isn't in the nuclear DNA but the mitocondrial (I assume I spelled it wrong) DNA. The mutation replaces normal cellular respiration with another comic-book-science process that converts the entire mass to energy, resulting in a lot more energy available. Then, it is probably the nuclear DNA that determines how that energy is used, resulting in each mutant having a unique power. This also puts an upper limit on how powerful a mutant can be. Years ago, I read an article in Wizard (the magazine about comic books) which pretended to be written by Dr Charles Xavier (leader of the XMen). It said that the mutation that gives them powers isn’t in the nuclear DNA but the mitocondrial (I assume I spelled it wrong) DNA. The mutation replaces normal cellular respiration with another comic-book-science process that converts the entire mass to energy, resulting in a lot more energy available. Then, it is probably the nuclear DNA that determines how that energy is used, resulting in each mutant having a unique power. This also puts an upper limit on how powerful a mutant can be.

]]> By: Freddy Meddy » Of Superheros and Conservation of Energy http://www.starstryder.com/2007/09/25/of-superheros-and-conservation-of-energy/comment-page-1/#comment-13439 Freddy Meddy » Of Superheros and Conservation of Energy Mon, 05 Nov 2007 16:16:47 +0000 http://www.starstryder.com/2007/09/25/of-superheros-and-conservation-of-energy/#comment-13439 [...] read more | digg story [...] [...] read more | digg story [...]

]]> By: PaulRein http://www.starstryder.com/2007/09/25/of-superheros-and-conservation-of-energy/comment-page-1/#comment-10578 PaulRein Thu, 11 Oct 2007 12:53:05 +0000 http://www.starstryder.com/2007/09/25/of-superheros-and-conservation-of-energy/#comment-10578 Part of me wants to cringe and say "Oh, come on, where would the fun be in that?" If you want to make a super-story, you have to break a few laws of physics. Or something. :-) On the other hand, Marvel at least gives a hand-wave to the needs of some of the energy hungry powers. Cyclops (and his brother Havoc) convert solar energy (Cyclops have occasionally been drained of power in dark places) for instance and so does Sunspot. As for damage caused by some powers (notably high-speed flying), most such character have been equiped with some kind of invulnerability or force-shield to protect them (Lightspeed, Cannonball, etc.) This does not alieviate the problem with conservation of energy but at least the writers recognized the problem (even if the then hand-waved it away). Also, several characters drain energy (and occasionaly mass) from "extra-dimensional sources" thereby sidestepping all of physics as we know it today. As for Star Wars, I find it much more implausible that they cross interstellar distances in practically no time (How long between Anakin and Amidala (on Tatooine) find out about Obi-Wan's situation (on Geonosis) to they arrive on that planet? Hmm?) than the Force feats. It is also interesting to note that Isaac Bonewits (the only person (in the US at least) to ever get an academic degree (BA) in Magic (from UC Berkely)) notes in his book "Real Magic" that the reason magic users (which he claims exist) in the real world does not throw fireballs or shoot lightningbolts is that it takes the same amount of energy to do things by magic as by other ways and it is very difficult to raise that much magical energy! Part of me wants to cringe and say “Oh, come on, where would the fun be in that?” If you want to make a super-story, you have to break a few laws of physics. Or something. :-)

On the other hand, Marvel at least gives a hand-wave to the needs of some of the energy hungry powers. Cyclops (and his brother Havoc) convert solar energy (Cyclops have occasionally been drained of power in dark places) for instance and so does Sunspot. As for damage caused by some powers (notably high-speed flying), most such character have been equiped with some kind of invulnerability or force-shield to protect them (Lightspeed, Cannonball, etc.) This does not alieviate the problem with conservation of energy but at least the writers recognized the problem (even if the then hand-waved it away).
Also, several characters drain energy (and occasionaly mass) from “extra-dimensional sources” thereby sidestepping all of physics as we know it today.

As for Star Wars, I find it much more implausible that they cross interstellar distances in practically no time (How long between Anakin and Amidala (on Tatooine) find out about Obi-Wan’s situation (on Geonosis) to they arrive on that planet? Hmm?) than the Force feats.

It is also interesting to note that Isaac Bonewits (the only person (in the US at least) to ever get an academic degree (BA) in Magic (from UC Berkely)) notes in his book “Real Magic” that the reason magic users (which he claims exist) in the real world does not throw fireballs or shoot lightningbolts is that it takes the same amount of energy to do things by magic as by other ways and it is very difficult to raise that much magical energy!

]]> By: Stephen http://www.starstryder.com/2007/09/25/of-superheros-and-conservation-of-energy/comment-page-1/#comment-10335 Stephen Mon, 08 Oct 2007 19:02:15 +0000 http://www.starstryder.com/2007/09/25/of-superheros-and-conservation-of-energy/#comment-10335 I ran cross country in school. To prepare for the five mile races, we ran 15 miles, twice a day. That's right, 30 miles a day on foot. I figured it was over 4,000 calories burned per day. As my diet didn't change (probably around 2,500 calories), you might expect that i'd have lost weight. But no. I gained weight - possibly muscle mass. My guess: the body can be really efficient if it wants to be. I've personally experienced a factor of eight improvement in body efficiency for more than one kind of task. And yet. "Eat a donut and run a mile - you're even." has been the rule. Of late, exercise has been encouraged in weight loss programs having to do with building muscle mass as a way of improving body chemistry having to do with coping with sugars. So, weight lifting is back in. So, no, i don't think they're going to need that extra pizza. And pizza it is in the X-Men lounge. Hercules talks about beer and pizza as "the nectar of the Gods". I ran cross country in school. To prepare for the five mile races, we ran 15 miles, twice a day. That’s right, 30 miles a day on foot. I figured it was over 4,000 calories burned per day. As my diet didn’t change (probably around 2,500 calories), you might expect that i’d have lost weight. But no. I gained weight – possibly muscle mass.

My guess: the body can be really efficient if it wants to be. I’ve personally experienced a factor of eight improvement in body efficiency for more than one kind of task.

And yet. “Eat a donut and run a mile – you’re even.” has been the rule. Of late, exercise has been encouraged in weight loss programs having to do with building muscle mass as a way of improving body chemistry having to do with coping with sugars. So, weight lifting is back in.

So, no, i don’t think they’re going to need that extra pizza. And pizza it is in the X-Men lounge. Hercules talks about beer and pizza as “the nectar of the Gods”.

]]> By: Joe http://www.starstryder.com/2007/09/25/of-superheros-and-conservation-of-energy/comment-page-1/#comment-9941 Joe Wed, 03 Oct 2007 06:18:14 +0000 http://www.starstryder.com/2007/09/25/of-superheros-and-conservation-of-energy/#comment-9941 The Eragon books by Christopher Paolini were on that track. Using magic took lots of energy. The magnitude of the feat determined how much energy would be needed for that feat, if the feat was too large or over too vast a distance, it could cost the person performing the magic their life. Too bad the movie was crap. The Eragon books by Christopher Paolini were on that track. Using magic took lots of energy. The magnitude of the feat determined how much energy would be needed for that feat, if the feat was too large or over too vast a distance, it could cost the person performing the magic their life. Too bad the movie was crap.

]]> By: Jon http://www.starstryder.com/2007/09/25/of-superheros-and-conservation-of-energy/comment-page-1/#comment-9906 Jon Tue, 02 Oct 2007 21:03:30 +0000 http://www.starstryder.com/2007/09/25/of-superheros-and-conservation-of-energy/#comment-9906 Good points in this article!! Interestingly enough, Superman is 'solar powered' and stores the energy he gets from the sun in his body. Its supposedly our yellow sun that gives him his powers. The question is whether or not he gets enough power from the Sun to do the extraordinary things he does... I guess according to the story he didn't use any of his powers until late puberty, so 13-16 years of storing solar energy, plus the amount he gets every day...perhaps Superman is few super heroes to obey the laws of conservation of energy! Good points in this article!! Interestingly enough, Superman is ‘solar powered’ and stores the energy he gets from the sun in his body. Its supposedly our yellow sun that gives him his powers.

The question is whether or not he gets enough power from the Sun to do the extraordinary things he does… I guess according to the story he didn’t use any of his powers until late puberty, so 13-16 years of storing solar energy, plus the amount he gets every day…perhaps Superman is few super heroes to obey the laws of conservation of energy!

]]> By: Burzycki.org » Astrosphere for September 25th, 2007 http://www.starstryder.com/2007/09/25/of-superheros-and-conservation-of-energy/comment-page-1/#comment-9542 Burzycki.org » Astrosphere for September 25th, 2007 Fri, 28 Sep 2007 06:01:21 +0000 http://www.starstryder.com/2007/09/25/of-superheros-and-conservation-of-energy/#comment-9542 [...] to back it up. Pamela Gay gets frustrated by television physics as well - she thinks our heroes should be getting a little hungrier. What do you use for your skywatching software? Astroprof reviews Stellarium. You can't go wrong [...] [...] to back it up. Pamela Gay gets frustrated by television physics as well – she thinks our heroes should be getting a little hungrier. What do you use for your skywatching software? Astroprof reviews Stellarium. You can’t go wrong [...]

]]> By: Kurt http://www.starstryder.com/2007/09/25/of-superheros-and-conservation-of-energy/comment-page-1/#comment-9497 Kurt Tue, 25 Sep 2007 23:35:11 +0000 http://www.starstryder.com/2007/09/25/of-superheros-and-conservation-of-energy/#comment-9497 There was one episode of Heroes that sort of covered this. When HRG came for Nathan after his evening with Jessica in Vegas, he flew off to avoid them. When he landed, it was at the diner where Hiro was having some breakfast... There was one episode of Heroes that sort of covered this.

When HRG came for Nathan after his evening with Jessica in Vegas, he flew off to avoid them. When he landed, it was at the diner where Hiro was having some breakfast…

]]> By: ioresult http://www.starstryder.com/2007/09/25/of-superheros-and-conservation-of-energy/comment-page-1/#comment-9494 ioresult Tue, 25 Sep 2007 22:09:07 +0000 http://www.starstryder.com/2007/09/25/of-superheros-and-conservation-of-energy/#comment-9494 Oh and it's not Luke that did the actual lifting of the X-Wing, it's Yoda! Oh and it’s not Luke that did the actual lifting of the X-Wing, it’s Yoda!

]]> By: ioresult http://www.starstryder.com/2007/09/25/of-superheros-and-conservation-of-energy/comment-page-1/#comment-9493 ioresult Tue, 25 Sep 2007 22:07:25 +0000 http://www.starstryder.com/2007/09/25/of-superheros-and-conservation-of-energy/#comment-9493 The magic on Discworld works like that too. For example, at one time, the Archchancellor of the Unseen University wanted to levitate (to get a better view). He had to blast off part of a tower parapet and use the potential energy of the falling rocks to lift himself. At another time, Rincewind used his mind to lift a locking mechanism and had a huge headache because the opposing force pushed his brain towards the bottom of his cranium. But I choose to believe that people in Heroes tap the void energy of the universe. That's a huge amount of energy. All you have to do is control it. The magic on Discworld works like that too.

For example, at one time, the Archchancellor of the Unseen University wanted to levitate (to get a better view). He had to blast off part of a tower parapet and use the potential energy of the falling rocks to lift himself. At another time, Rincewind used his mind to lift a locking mechanism and had a huge headache because the opposing force pushed his brain towards the bottom of his cranium.

But I choose to believe that people in Heroes tap the void energy of the universe. That’s a huge amount of energy. All you have to do is control it.

]]> By: Jay Parkhill http://www.starstryder.com/2007/09/25/of-superheros-and-conservation-of-energy/comment-page-1/#comment-9491 Jay Parkhill Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:59:00 +0000 http://www.starstryder.com/2007/09/25/of-superheros-and-conservation-of-energy/#comment-9491 This is a fun line of thought! Eragon follows the same rule. Magic uses the same amount of energy as if the feat had been done manually, distance increases the effort required, etc. It helps nicely to answer the "why can't the hero just use a spell to kill the bad guy from afar?" question. I enjoy the blog. keep up the good work. This is a fun line of thought!

Eragon follows the same rule. Magic uses the same amount of energy as if the feat had been done manually, distance increases the effort required, etc. It helps nicely to answer the “why can’t the hero just use a spell to kill the bad guy from afar?” question.

I enjoy the blog. keep up the good work.

]]> By: Cynthia http://www.starstryder.com/2007/09/25/of-superheros-and-conservation-of-energy/comment-page-1/#comment-9484 Cynthia Tue, 25 Sep 2007 19:24:50 +0000 http://www.starstryder.com/2007/09/25/of-superheros-and-conservation-of-energy/#comment-9484 Technically speaking ;) Luke Skywalker channeled the Force which is presumably an energy field created by all living things (or at least the midochloridians living within the tissues of larger creatures). After all, the Force can extend over great distances and through subspace as evidenced by Obi Wan Kenobi wincing when Alderaan was vaporized. So you might consider that the energy Luke uses is primarily generated by life forms around him and therefore Luke might only be a conduit as opposed to the primary source of the required energies. We could surmise something similar is happening with our friends on Heroes. After all, if their genetic mutations are allowing them to perform such amazing feats we could also allow for an underlying NBC Force into which the Heroes tap into to provide the power they require. The same could be true for the genetic X-men mutants. (Say, does Hollywood have any original ideas anymore?) And who the heck knows what's actually happening on LOST, but I suspect Desmond might be tapping into such a field as well. It must take a lot of energy to do the time travel thing! Technically speaking ;) Luke Skywalker channeled the Force which is presumably an energy field created by all living things (or at least the midochloridians living within the tissues of larger creatures). After all, the Force can extend over great distances and through subspace as evidenced by Obi Wan Kenobi wincing when Alderaan was vaporized. So you might consider that the energy Luke uses is primarily generated by life forms around him and therefore Luke might only be a conduit as opposed to the primary source of the required energies.

We could surmise something similar is happening with our friends on Heroes. After all, if their genetic mutations are allowing them to perform such amazing feats we could also allow for an underlying NBC Force into which the Heroes tap into to provide the power they require. The same could be true for the genetic X-men mutants. (Say, does Hollywood have any original ideas anymore?) And who the heck knows what’s actually happening on LOST, but I suspect Desmond might be tapping into such a field as well. It must take a lot of energy to do the time travel thing!

]]> By: Freiddie http://www.starstryder.com/2007/09/25/of-superheros-and-conservation-of-energy/comment-page-1/#comment-9469 Freiddie Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:20:19 +0000 http://www.starstryder.com/2007/09/25/of-superheros-and-conservation-of-energy/#comment-9469 I've also had similar encounters. I remember watching this cartoon: Megas XLR, which was basically about a group of teenagers and a gigantic (giant) robot. It's amazing how much the robot expends everyday - I mean a not just trip from New Jersey to Las Vegas, but things like going to Saturn (and further), but still with ORDINARY gasoline? It's an interesting show, but this is what makes giant robots so unlikely to be build any time soon. I’ve also had similar encounters. I remember watching this cartoon: Megas XLR, which was basically about a group of teenagers and a gigantic (giant) robot. It’s amazing how much the robot expends everyday – I mean a not just trip from New Jersey to Las Vegas, but things like going to Saturn (and further), but still with ORDINARY gasoline? It’s an interesting show, but this is what makes giant robots so unlikely to be build any time soon.

]]> By: John M. http://www.starstryder.com/2007/09/25/of-superheros-and-conservation-of-energy/comment-page-1/#comment-9466 John M. Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:09:06 +0000 http://www.starstryder.com/2007/09/25/of-superheros-and-conservation-of-energy/#comment-9466 1. Maybe the whole reason they have superpowers is because they have these ultra-efficient metabolisms that allow them to turn food directly into power. 2. It is definitely "our" Tivo. 1. Maybe the whole reason they have superpowers is because they have these ultra-efficient metabolisms that allow them to turn food directly into power.

2. It is definitely “our” Tivo.

]]> By: Alex http://www.starstryder.com/2007/09/25/of-superheros-and-conservation-of-energy/comment-page-1/#comment-9460 Alex Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:21:28 +0000 http://www.starstryder.com/2007/09/25/of-superheros-and-conservation-of-energy/#comment-9460 I don't recall all the particulars of how the force works for Jedi, but I believe there is some sort of idea about tapping into an omnipresent "force" in the universe. So Luke may be just harnessing the energy around him and reusing it for his own purposes. Luke is just a giant energy leech. I think I saw those swamp trees behind him wilting as he lifted the X-wing! :P I don’t recall all the particulars of how the force works for Jedi, but I believe there is some sort of idea about tapping into an omnipresent “force” in the universe. So Luke may be just harnessing the energy around him and reusing it for his own purposes. Luke is just a giant energy leech. I think I saw those swamp trees behind him wilting as he lifted the X-wing! :P

]]> By: Don http://www.starstryder.com/2007/09/25/of-superheros-and-conservation-of-energy/comment-page-1/#comment-9455 Don Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:32:31 +0000 http://www.starstryder.com/2007/09/25/of-superheros-and-conservation-of-energy/#comment-9455 Do you remember that (unfortunately) short lived superhero TV show, The Flash? In that show, they had him eating constantly. They also implied that he had to buy a ton of groceries DAILY. I found it on IMDB: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098798/ Wow, I hope I can find that show on DVD. My nostalgic memory remembers that show as being awesome. Do you remember that (unfortunately) short lived superhero TV show, The Flash? In that show, they had him eating constantly. They also implied that he had to buy a ton of groceries DAILY.

I found it on IMDB: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098798/

Wow, I hope I can find that show on DVD. My nostalgic memory remembers that show as being awesome.

]]> By: Tyler http://www.starstryder.com/2007/09/25/of-superheros-and-conservation-of-energy/comment-page-1/#comment-9446 Tyler Tue, 25 Sep 2007 13:20:05 +0000 http://www.starstryder.com/2007/09/25/of-superheros-and-conservation-of-energy/#comment-9446 Agreed. Also, while they are addressing the conservation of energy issue, they might explain how the character's bodies avoid the almost certain damage done to cells that are subject to the forces exerted upon them...lifting, friction, heat etc. Suspending science, though, makes a good story sometimes, no? Agreed. Also, while they are addressing the conservation of energy issue, they might explain how the character’s bodies avoid the almost certain damage done to cells that are subject to the forces exerted upon them…lifting, friction, heat etc. Suspending science, though, makes a good story sometimes, no?

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